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	<title>Comments on: Climate Change and South Florida</title>
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	<link>http://www.transitmiami.com/2007/03/27/climate-change-and-south-florida/</link>
	<description>Moving Together, Faster</description>
	<pubDate>Mon, 01 Dec 2008 22:13:25 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Paul305</title>
		<link>http://www.transitmiami.com/2007/03/27/climate-change-and-south-florida/#comment-4381</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul305</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Mar 2007 16:06:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.evolvemiami.org/transitmiami/2007/03/27/climate-change-and-south-florida/#comment-4381</guid>
		<description>Most scientists would tell you that while global warming is responsible for an increase in the intensity of hurricanes (as much as 10% faster wind speeds over the next 75 years), it is also responsible for a decrease in hurricane frequency. For example, the 2006 hurricane season was weakened by an increase in La Nina conditions and in the amount of Saharan Air Layers (basically dust.) Both of these events will occur longer and more often as the atmosphere gets warmer.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Btw, I still think we need to reduce greenhouse gas emissions. The possibility that it won't affect us doesn't justify the fact that it will almost definitely create a global disaster for future generations. I just like playing the devil's advocate.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Most scientists would tell you that while global warming is responsible for an increase in the intensity of hurricanes (as much as 10% faster wind speeds over the next 75 years), it is also responsible for a decrease in hurricane frequency. For example, the 2006 hurricane season was weakened by an increase in La Nina conditions and in the amount of Saharan Air Layers (basically dust.) Both of these events will occur longer and more often as the atmosphere gets warmer.</p>
<p>Btw, I still think we need to reduce greenhouse gas emissions. The possibility that it won&#8217;t affect us doesn&#8217;t justify the fact that it will almost definitely create a global disaster for future generations. I just like playing the devil&#8217;s advocate.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.transitmiami.com/2007/03/27/climate-change-and-south-florida/#comment-4378</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Mar 2007 07:19:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.evolvemiami.org/transitmiami/2007/03/27/climate-change-and-south-florida/#comment-4378</guid>
		<description>well said</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>well said</p>
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		<title>By: Jeff</title>
		<link>http://www.transitmiami.com/2007/03/27/climate-change-and-south-florida/#comment-4374</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Mar 2007 01:56:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.evolvemiami.org/transitmiami/2007/03/27/climate-change-and-south-florida/#comment-4374</guid>
		<description>Yup.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;So it gets hotter. Big whoop. We need air conditioning 365 days/year instead of 357. It's not like it could possibly get more humid than 100%. Even when it's 65, we still need to run the AC because it's 99% humidity. There's a certain wet bulb temperature point at which you just can't really be any more miserable outdoors than you already are... and for most of the year, we're well past that point anyway.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Less rain? Hell, if it rained less and became less humid, that's cause for *CELEBRATION*. It means we'd have NICER WEATHER than we have now. &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Food? Please. 99% of the food at Publix ALREADY comes from Arizona, Georgia, Mexico, Nebraska, and China. In the grand scheme of things, food grown in Dade County is basically irrelevant to the daily lives of consumers here. Plus, in 50 years, there won't BE farms LEFT in Dade County, because every square inch of land outside the Everglades will be urbanized, and the last farmer will have long since sold the farm to Lennar and retired to a resort town somewhere in Mexico.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;I don't even think most of the CITRUS sold here is from Florida, because most Florida citrus goes straight to frozen orange juice concentrate, and the waste gets used to make the cheap Triple-Sec and vodka. Florida citrus isn't pretty enough to wax and sell as citrus because it's not a uniform orange color. Besides, at the rate Orlando is sprawling, there won't BE any citrus groves LEFT in 50 years, because the land they're on will all have been sold to developers for condos and golf courses. &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Water? That's why the Army Corps of Engineers invented Lake Okeechobee. It's REALLY a big artificial reservoir. If push came to shove, we could just dike the entire everglades and turn it into an even BIGGER reservoir... filling up when we have hurricanes, draining off when we have dry years. Of course, the environmentalists would go into convulsions by that point... but you could almost count THAT as a bonus :-D&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Hurricanes? That's why god invented reinforced concrete, and made it available for roof-building. If hurricanes become a common event, within a decade or two we'll have engineered them into irrelevance (buried utilities. concrete roofs, aquarium-glass storefront windows, etc). Think about it... in Dade County, a direct hit by a Category 1 hurricane that would cripple half the state of North Carolina for a week is roughly equivalent to a "snow day" in upstate New York. The hardening process has already begun.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;In the grand scheme of things, some areas will be harmed by climate change. Other areas will benefit. America's a big country, with plenty of climactic diversity. If Nebraska turns into a desert, who's to say Alaska and North Dakota won't bloom? If Florida dries up, maybe Nevada will turn into a jungle. In the end, it doesn't matter, because NOTHING we do will make the slightest bit of difference anyway. Rather than waste resources trying in vain to preserve the status quo, we might as well embrace it and find creative new ways to profit and benefit from it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yup.</p>
<p>So it gets hotter. Big whoop. We need air conditioning 365 days/year instead of 357. It&#8217;s not like it could possibly get more humid than 100%. Even when it&#8217;s 65, we still need to run the AC because it&#8217;s 99% humidity. There&#8217;s a certain wet bulb temperature point at which you just can&#8217;t really be any more miserable outdoors than you already are&#8230; and for most of the year, we&#8217;re well past that point anyway.</p>
<p>Less rain? Hell, if it rained less and became less humid, that&#8217;s cause for *CELEBRATION*. It means we&#8217;d have NICER WEATHER than we have now. </p>
<p>Food? Please. 99% of the food at Publix ALREADY comes from Arizona, Georgia, Mexico, Nebraska, and China. In the grand scheme of things, food grown in Dade County is basically irrelevant to the daily lives of consumers here. Plus, in 50 years, there won&#8217;t BE farms LEFT in Dade County, because every square inch of land outside the Everglades will be urbanized, and the last farmer will have long since sold the farm to Lennar and retired to a resort town somewhere in Mexico.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t even think most of the CITRUS sold here is from Florida, because most Florida citrus goes straight to frozen orange juice concentrate, and the waste gets used to make the cheap Triple-Sec and vodka. Florida citrus isn&#8217;t pretty enough to wax and sell as citrus because it&#8217;s not a uniform orange color. Besides, at the rate Orlando is sprawling, there won&#8217;t BE any citrus groves LEFT in 50 years, because the land they&#8217;re on will all have been sold to developers for condos and golf courses. </p>
<p>Water? That&#8217;s why the Army Corps of Engineers invented Lake Okeechobee. It&#8217;s REALLY a big artificial reservoir. If push came to shove, we could just dike the entire everglades and turn it into an even BIGGER reservoir&#8230; filling up when we have hurricanes, draining off when we have dry years. Of course, the environmentalists would go into convulsions by that point&#8230; but you could almost count THAT as a bonus <img src='http://www.transitmiami.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif' alt=':-D' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>Hurricanes? That&#8217;s why god invented reinforced concrete, and made it available for roof-building. If hurricanes become a common event, within a decade or two we&#8217;ll have engineered them into irrelevance (buried utilities. concrete roofs, aquarium-glass storefront windows, etc). Think about it&#8230; in Dade County, a direct hit by a Category 1 hurricane that would cripple half the state of North Carolina for a week is roughly equivalent to a &#8220;snow day&#8221; in upstate New York. The hardening process has already begun.</p>
<p>In the grand scheme of things, some areas will be harmed by climate change. Other areas will benefit. America&#8217;s a big country, with plenty of climactic diversity. If Nebraska turns into a desert, who&#8217;s to say Alaska and North Dakota won&#8217;t bloom? If Florida dries up, maybe Nevada will turn into a jungle. In the end, it doesn&#8217;t matter, because NOTHING we do will make the slightest bit of difference anyway. Rather than waste resources trying in vain to preserve the status quo, we might as well embrace it and find creative new ways to profit and benefit from it.</p>
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		<title>By: Paul305</title>
		<link>http://www.transitmiami.com/2007/03/27/climate-change-and-south-florida/#comment-4373</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul305</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Mar 2007 17:56:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.evolvemiami.org/transitmiami/2007/03/27/climate-change-and-south-florida/#comment-4373</guid>
		<description>Basically, yes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Basically, yes.</p>
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		<title>By: Ryan</title>
		<link>http://www.transitmiami.com/2007/03/27/climate-change-and-south-florida/#comment-4369</link>
		<dc:creator>Ryan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Mar 2007 14:13:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.evolvemiami.org/transitmiami/2007/03/27/climate-change-and-south-florida/#comment-4369</guid>
		<description>First of all, Paul you need to listen to the audio like I recommended above. In the interview, one of the scientists who did the study mentions some predictions more relevant to South Florida. Secondly, Jeff and Paul, are you seriously saying that we don't have to worry about sea level rise?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>First of all, Paul you need to listen to the audio like I recommended above. In the interview, one of the scientists who did the study mentions some predictions more relevant to South Florida. Secondly, Jeff and Paul, are you seriously saying that we don&#8217;t have to worry about sea level rise?</p>
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		<title>By: Paul305</title>
		<link>http://www.transitmiami.com/2007/03/27/climate-change-and-south-florida/#comment-4365</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul305</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Mar 2007 05:22:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.evolvemiami.org/transitmiami/2007/03/27/climate-change-and-south-florida/#comment-4365</guid>
		<description>Jeff's right. Most studies have shown that Antarctica's and Greenland's ice shelfs won't collapse for another 250 years or so. Each one could contribute as much as 20 feet of water. However, this 40 foot change isn't going to happen any time soon and it isn't going to occur at a steady rate either. Instead, the rate of change in sea level will follow an exponential curve as the ice shelfs gain momentum and melt water helps lubricate the glaciers' flow. The first 100 years or so will be uneventful while the last few years of sea level change will likely be catastrophic.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Also, I read the study finally and it doesn't say anything necessarily bad about our region. It predicts that we will have a "novel" climate  (or new climate). Since species in tropical climates experience little variation, they have become more vulnerable to climate change. Then when a new climate comes along, these species are replaced with better adapted species.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Since Miami has already been taken over by Australian Pines, Cattails, Pepper trees, Iguanas, Boa constrictors, and a variety of other invasive species, the effects of a "novel" climate will just be more of the same.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jeff&#8217;s right. Most studies have shown that Antarctica&#8217;s and Greenland&#8217;s ice shelfs won&#8217;t collapse for another 250 years or so. Each one could contribute as much as 20 feet of water. However, this 40 foot change isn&#8217;t going to happen any time soon and it isn&#8217;t going to occur at a steady rate either. Instead, the rate of change in sea level will follow an exponential curve as the ice shelfs gain momentum and melt water helps lubricate the glaciers&#8217; flow. The first 100 years or so will be uneventful while the last few years of sea level change will likely be catastrophic.</p>
<p>Also, I read the study finally and it doesn&#8217;t say anything necessarily bad about our region. It predicts that we will have a &#8220;novel&#8221; climate  (or new climate). Since species in tropical climates experience little variation, they have become more vulnerable to climate change. Then when a new climate comes along, these species are replaced with better adapted species.</p>
<p>Since Miami has already been taken over by Australian Pines, Cattails, Pepper trees, Iguanas, Boa constrictors, and a variety of other invasive species, the effects of a &#8220;novel&#8221; climate will just be more of the same.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeff</title>
		<link>http://www.transitmiami.com/2007/03/27/climate-change-and-south-florida/#comment-4363</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Mar 2007 00:40:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.evolvemiami.org/transitmiami/2007/03/27/climate-change-and-south-florida/#comment-4363</guid>
		<description>&gt; Not to diminish all other global warming concerns, the potential rise in the sea level is what is really worrisome. What does it matter if its hotter, if our city is under water?&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Relax. It won't be. The most pessimistic scenario imaginable (from reputable scientists quoted at wikipedia, at least) is 2-3 feet of rise by 2100, absolutely positively worst-case runaway-global-warming-max... and it would be pretty hard to "achieve" even THAT much of a rise. A foot, maybe, is the most likely rise. By the time sea levels rise 10 feet, the human race will have either colonized Mars, or been destroyed by a planet-killing asteroid anyway.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;In all likelihood, if nobody pointed it out to you, you won't even notice any year to year change. Over the span of a decade, you might notice an old measuring stick lashed to a dock now reads an inch or two higher than you remember it being long, long ago... but even then, you wouldn't be sure unless you'd written it down a decade earlier.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Why? Most northern-hemisphere ice is floating, and already occupies most of the space it would take up if fully melted. Remember, most of an iceberg is underwater, and frozen water takes up slightly more room than liquid water. And that ice represents just a tiny volume of overall ocean volume. &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Even if Greenland and Antarctica routinely started having summers as hot as Miami's, thick ice sheets don't melt overnight. Or even over decades. Remember, as the outermost ice melts, it turns to water. From that point, additional energy gets divided between melting more ice and warming the already-melted ice so it evaporates. &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;The pictures of retreating glaciers that climate-change extremists show all the time are of glaciers that were barely glaciers anymore to begin with, and were on their way out since the last ice age anyway. Full-bore rapid deglaciation is roughly a mile of retreat per year. For most glaciers, it's measured in feet per year. At either rate, Greenland and Antarctica are really, REALLY big, and it's going to take a really, REALLY long time to deglaciate them... assuming winter snowfall didn't undo most of the previous summer's melting. And while I'm at it, roughly 1/4-1/3 of Antarctica's glaciers are floating ice, too. So unless Kim Jong Il decides to throw a few nukes at Greenland and Antarctica (which probably WOULD accelerate things a bit by pumping massive amounts of water vapor into the air), the inrushing tsunamis of hundred-foot waves due to rising sea levels speeding towards land to flood our cities is a myth.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Are sea levels likely to rise? Yes. Are they likely to rise faster than the Army Corps of Engineers can beat them back into submission? No. Fearmongering aside, you're not going to look out the window tomorrow and see fifty foot tsunamis inundating Miami due to global warming. Nor next month, year, decade, or century.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>> Not to diminish all other global warming concerns, the potential rise in the sea level is what is really worrisome. What does it matter if its hotter, if our city is under water?</p>
<p>Relax. It won&#8217;t be. The most pessimistic scenario imaginable (from reputable scientists quoted at wikipedia, at least) is 2-3 feet of rise by 2100, absolutely positively worst-case runaway-global-warming-max&#8230; and it would be pretty hard to &#8220;achieve&#8221; even THAT much of a rise. A foot, maybe, is the most likely rise. By the time sea levels rise 10 feet, the human race will have either colonized Mars, or been destroyed by a planet-killing asteroid anyway.</p>
<p>In all likelihood, if nobody pointed it out to you, you won&#8217;t even notice any year to year change. Over the span of a decade, you might notice an old measuring stick lashed to a dock now reads an inch or two higher than you remember it being long, long ago&#8230; but even then, you wouldn&#8217;t be sure unless you&#8217;d written it down a decade earlier.</p>
<p>Why? Most northern-hemisphere ice is floating, and already occupies most of the space it would take up if fully melted. Remember, most of an iceberg is underwater, and frozen water takes up slightly more room than liquid water. And that ice represents just a tiny volume of overall ocean volume. </p>
<p>Even if Greenland and Antarctica routinely started having summers as hot as Miami&#8217;s, thick ice sheets don&#8217;t melt overnight. Or even over decades. Remember, as the outermost ice melts, it turns to water. From that point, additional energy gets divided between melting more ice and warming the already-melted ice so it evaporates. </p>
<p>The pictures of retreating glaciers that climate-change extremists show all the time are of glaciers that were barely glaciers anymore to begin with, and were on their way out since the last ice age anyway. Full-bore rapid deglaciation is roughly a mile of retreat per year. For most glaciers, it&#8217;s measured in feet per year. At either rate, Greenland and Antarctica are really, REALLY big, and it&#8217;s going to take a really, REALLY long time to deglaciate them&#8230; assuming winter snowfall didn&#8217;t undo most of the previous summer&#8217;s melting. And while I&#8217;m at it, roughly 1/4-1/3 of Antarctica&#8217;s glaciers are floating ice, too. So unless Kim Jong Il decides to throw a few nukes at Greenland and Antarctica (which probably WOULD accelerate things a bit by pumping massive amounts of water vapor into the air), the inrushing tsunamis of hundred-foot waves due to rising sea levels speeding towards land to flood our cities is a myth.</p>
<p>Are sea levels likely to rise? Yes. Are they likely to rise faster than the Army Corps of Engineers can beat them back into submission? No. Fearmongering aside, you&#8217;re not going to look out the window tomorrow and see fifty foot tsunamis inundating Miami due to global warming. Nor next month, year, decade, or century.</p>
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		<title>By: Ryan</title>
		<link>http://www.transitmiami.com/2007/03/27/climate-change-and-south-florida/#comment-4362</link>
		<dc:creator>Ryan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Mar 2007 20:03:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.evolvemiami.org/transitmiami/2007/03/27/climate-change-and-south-florida/#comment-4362</guid>
		<description>Henry, although you are right that deforestation and urbanization can affect climate locally, these are by no means the principle factors used by scientists to predict future climate change. South Florida's future climate change will result from the comprehenisve phenomenon of global warming - it just so happens South Florida may have a novel climate unlike any other on earth by 2100. &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;The study concludes that the tropics/subtropics throughout the world will be one of the most affected areas by global warming. South Florida falls within this category, however it is predicted we could have a different climate from, say, Indonesia, even though both areas may suffer equally from climate change.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Henry, although you are right that deforestation and urbanization can affect climate locally, these are by no means the principle factors used by scientists to predict future climate change. South Florida&#8217;s future climate change will result from the comprehenisve phenomenon of global warming - it just so happens South Florida may have a novel climate unlike any other on earth by 2100. </p>
<p>The study concludes that the tropics/subtropics throughout the world will be one of the most affected areas by global warming. South Florida falls within this category, however it is predicted we could have a different climate from, say, Indonesia, even though both areas may suffer equally from climate change.</p>
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		<title>By: Henry Gomez</title>
		<link>http://www.transitmiami.com/2007/03/27/climate-change-and-south-florida/#comment-4361</link>
		<dc:creator>Henry Gomez</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Mar 2007 18:45:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.evolvemiami.org/transitmiami/2007/03/27/climate-change-and-south-florida/#comment-4361</guid>
		<description>My understanding is that local climate change has more to do with deforestation and urbanization than with co2 or greenhouse gases.  It's a separate phenomenon from the global warming that greenhouse gases are supposed to cause.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My understanding is that local climate change has more to do with deforestation and urbanization than with co2 or greenhouse gases.  It&#8217;s a separate phenomenon from the global warming that greenhouse gases are supposed to cause.</p>
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		<title>By: Ryan</title>
		<link>http://www.transitmiami.com/2007/03/27/climate-change-and-south-florida/#comment-4360</link>
		<dc:creator>Ryan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Mar 2007 17:42:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.evolvemiami.org/transitmiami/2007/03/27/climate-change-and-south-florida/#comment-4360</guid>
		<description>You're absolutely right, Xavier. I think for many people, however, it is tough to imagine the catastrophic effects of sea level rise because they probably cannot yet relate. However, all South Floridians can relate to oppressive heat and humidity, so I think it's important to use that as a context for understanding what may be in store for our future if we do not start living more sustainably.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You&#8217;re absolutely right, Xavier. I think for many people, however, it is tough to imagine the catastrophic effects of sea level rise because they probably cannot yet relate. However, all South Floridians can relate to oppressive heat and humidity, so I think it&#8217;s important to use that as a context for understanding what may be in store for our future if we do not start living more sustainably.</p>
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