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	<title>Comments on: When NIMBYs Plan, We all Lose</title>
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	<link>http://www.transitmiami.com/2007/01/24/when-nimbys-plan-we-all-lose/</link>
	<description>Moving Together, Faster</description>
	<pubDate>Tue, 02 Dec 2008 00:14:07 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: mixed use lover - size hater</title>
		<link>http://www.transitmiami.com/2007/01/24/when-nimbys-plan-we-all-lose/#comment-4189</link>
		<dc:creator>mixed use lover - size hater</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Feb 2007 00:17:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Why is the County allowing Rua to change the design which won the RFP?&lt;br/&gt; &lt;br/&gt;He wins in 1999 then supersizes this plan?  It is 2007, is Rua serious?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why is the County allowing Rua to change the design which won the RFP?</p>
<p>He wins in 1999 then supersizes this plan?  It is 2007, is Rua serious?</p>
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		<title>By: Royal Brent</title>
		<link>http://www.transitmiami.com/2007/01/24/when-nimbys-plan-we-all-lose/#comment-4136</link>
		<dc:creator>Royal Brent</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Jan 2007 22:27:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>The Miame-Herald states, "The committee's recommendations must be approved by the Miami City Commission. After approval, Rua can create a site plan, which must be approved by the Rapid Transit Development Impact Committee and then voted on by the County Commission."&lt;br /&gt; &lt;br /&gt;Is it true that the Rapid Transit Development Impact Committee's recommendations must be approved by the Miami City Commission? &lt;br /&gt;What is the scenario if the Miami City Commission does not approve the RTDIC recommendations? &lt;br /&gt;With the City's approval then Rua can, not must, present a site plan. Without the site plan does the proposal go directly to the County or must it return to the City since there is no site plan?&lt;br /&gt;Your answers and comments.&lt;br /&gt; &lt;br /&gt;Thank you,&lt;br /&gt; &lt;br /&gt;Brent Cutler&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;----- Original Message ----- &lt;br /&gt;From: MiamiCityWatch@aol.com &lt;br /&gt;To: undisclosed-recipients: &lt;br /&gt;Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2007 8:43 AM&lt;br /&gt;Subject: Station height limit draws mixed reviews&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Posted on Sun, Jan. 28, 2007&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;COCONUT GROVE&lt;br /&gt;Station height limit draws mixed reviews&lt;br /&gt;A committee set zoning recommendations Wednesday for the Coconut Grove Metrorail Station site, including a 200-foot height limit.&lt;br /&gt;BY DAVID SMILEY&lt;br /&gt;dsmiley@MiamiHerald.com&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;A new development planned for the site of the Coconut Grove Metrorail station must be no taller than 200 feet, or about 19 stories, a county committee said Wednesday.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Even though that's 50 feet less than what developer Carlos Rua requested, the idea received mixed reviews from residents who thought the project is out of scale with the neighborhood.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The Rapid Transit Development Impact Committee voted 5-2 to approve standards for the station, 2780 SW 27th Ave., which mean the project must:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;• Have a maximum of 125 residential units per acre, of which 12.5 percent must be ``workforce housing.''&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;• Be mixed-use, and include a child-care center, a supermarket, office space and food sales.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;• Have a 75-foot height limit for the first 20 feet bordering the residential area along Southwest 27th Terrace.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Miami-Dade's Director of Planning and Zoning Diane O'Quinn Williams, who voted against the standards, said though she was pleased with the recommendations overall, she was unhappy that the committee eliminated maximum limits for the square footage of allowed uses.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;''I think without the maximums it provides the developer the argument that an entire building could be office or residential,'' Williams said.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Rua said maximum standards for usage would give him less flexibility to meet the needs of the commercial market.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The Coral Gables City Commission instructed city planning employee Javier Betancourt to vote against the recommendations. The commission said the height and density allowed will set a standard for development at the University Metrorail Station, which like the Grove station is close to a residential neighborhood, said Planning Director Eric Riel.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Most residents wanted Rua to stick to his original 1999 proposal of a 14-story tower, a 10-story tower and a supermarket. Over the years, Rua's plans ballooned, and at one point included two, 35-story towers, which first galvanized opposition.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Rua has said he increased the scope of his project because the county prefers Metrorail joint-developments be as dense as possible in order to increase Metrorail ridership.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;A disgusted Felice Dubin, a Cocoanut Grove Village Councilwoman who has led the project's opposition, said after the meeting she was ``too upset to comment.''&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Others unhappy with the height recommendations wondered why the two committee members from the City of Miami approved the standards.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;''Is it just me, or is it ironic that we got more support from the city of Coral Gables?'' Grove resident Lisa Butler said.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Living in the Grove is like being under siege from developers, Butler said in reference to Rua's project and the proposed 300 Grove Bay Residences on the grounds of Mercy Hospital, which the Miami City Commission gave preliminary approval to Thursday.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Grove activist Jim McMasters said the 200-foot height is acceptable but worried about the possible square footage of the development.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;''Is this just a blank check?'' he asked. Rua's original proposal was a minimum standard and his lease can be amended by the County Commission and county manager.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The fluctuation of the size of the planned buildings created opposition among residents who wanted to know how Rua could potentially build something larger than what he initially proposed without public input.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Rua's attorney, Gilberto Pastoriza, said the standards are more restrictive than the 250 feet his client wanted, but will suffice.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;''You're never going to be 100 percent happy with anything, but at least this allows us to move on with the process,'' he said.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The committee's recommendations must be approved by the Miami City Commission. After approval, Rua can create a site plan, which must be approved by the Rapid Transit Development Impact Committee and then voted on by the County Commission.&lt;br /&gt;------------------------------------------------------------------------</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Miame-Herald states, &#8220;The committee&#8217;s recommendations must be approved by the Miami City Commission. After approval, Rua can create a site plan, which must be approved by the Rapid Transit Development Impact Committee and then voted on by the County Commission.&#8221;</p>
<p>Is it true that the Rapid Transit Development Impact Committee&#8217;s recommendations must be approved by the Miami City Commission? <br />What is the scenario if the Miami City Commission does not approve the RTDIC recommendations? <br />With the City&#8217;s approval then Rua can, not must, present a site plan. Without the site plan does the proposal go directly to the County or must it return to the City since there is no site plan?<br />Your answers and comments.</p>
<p>Thank you,</p>
<p>Brent Cutler</p>
<p>&#8212;&#8211; Original Message &#8212;&#8211; <br />From: <a href="mailto:MiamiCityWatch@aol.com">MiamiCityWatch@aol.com</a> <br />To: undisclosed-recipients: <br />Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2007 8:43 AM<br />Subject: Station height limit draws mixed reviews</p>
<p>Posted on Sun, Jan. 28, 2007</p>
<p>COCONUT GROVE<br />Station height limit draws mixed reviews<br />A committee set zoning recommendations Wednesday for the Coconut Grove Metrorail Station site, including a 200-foot height limit.<br />BY DAVID SMILEY<br /><a href="mailto:dsmiley@MiamiHerald.com">dsmiley@MiamiHerald.com</a></p>
<p>A new development planned for the site of the Coconut Grove Metrorail station must be no taller than 200 feet, or about 19 stories, a county committee said Wednesday.</p>
<p>Even though that&#8217;s 50 feet less than what developer Carlos Rua requested, the idea received mixed reviews from residents who thought the project is out of scale with the neighborhood.</p>
<p>The Rapid Transit Development Impact Committee voted 5-2 to approve standards for the station, 2780 SW 27th Ave., which mean the project must:</p>
<p>• Have a maximum of 125 residential units per acre, of which 12.5 percent must be &#8220;workforce housing.&#8221;</p>
<p>• Be mixed-use, and include a child-care center, a supermarket, office space and food sales.</p>
<p>• Have a 75-foot height limit for the first 20 feet bordering the residential area along Southwest 27th Terrace.</p>
<p>Miami-Dade&#8217;s Director of Planning and Zoning Diane O&#8217;Quinn Williams, who voted against the standards, said though she was pleased with the recommendations overall, she was unhappy that the committee eliminated maximum limits for the square footage of allowed uses.</p>
<p>&#8221;I think without the maximums it provides the developer the argument that an entire building could be office or residential,&#8221; Williams said.</p>
<p>Rua said maximum standards for usage would give him less flexibility to meet the needs of the commercial market.</p>
<p>The Coral Gables City Commission instructed city planning employee Javier Betancourt to vote against the recommendations. The commission said the height and density allowed will set a standard for development at the University Metrorail Station, which like the Grove station is close to a residential neighborhood, said Planning Director Eric Riel.</p>
<p>Most residents wanted Rua to stick to his original 1999 proposal of a 14-story tower, a 10-story tower and a supermarket. Over the years, Rua&#8217;s plans ballooned, and at one point included two, 35-story towers, which first galvanized opposition.</p>
<p>Rua has said he increased the scope of his project because the county prefers Metrorail joint-developments be as dense as possible in order to increase Metrorail ridership.</p>
<p>A disgusted Felice Dubin, a Cocoanut Grove Village Councilwoman who has led the project&#8217;s opposition, said after the meeting she was &#8220;too upset to comment.&#8221;</p>
<p>Others unhappy with the height recommendations wondered why the two committee members from the City of Miami approved the standards.</p>
<p>&#8221;Is it just me, or is it ironic that we got more support from the city of Coral Gables?&#8221; Grove resident Lisa Butler said.</p>
<p>Living in the Grove is like being under siege from developers, Butler said in reference to Rua&#8217;s project and the proposed 300 Grove Bay Residences on the grounds of Mercy Hospital, which the Miami City Commission gave preliminary approval to Thursday.</p>
<p>Grove activist Jim McMasters said the 200-foot height is acceptable but worried about the possible square footage of the development.</p>
<p>&#8221;Is this just a blank check?&#8221; he asked. Rua&#8217;s original proposal was a minimum standard and his lease can be amended by the County Commission and county manager.</p>
<p>The fluctuation of the size of the planned buildings created opposition among residents who wanted to know how Rua could potentially build something larger than what he initially proposed without public input.</p>
<p>Rua&#8217;s attorney, Gilberto Pastoriza, said the standards are more restrictive than the 250 feet his client wanted, but will suffice.</p>
<p>&#8221;You&#8217;re never going to be 100 percent happy with anything, but at least this allows us to move on with the process,&#8221; he said.</p>
<p>The committee&#8217;s recommendations must be approved by the Miami City Commission. After approval, Rua can create a site plan, which must be approved by the Rapid Transit Development Impact Committee and then voted on by the County Commission.<br />&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.transitmiami.com/2007/01/24/when-nimbys-plan-we-all-lose/#comment-4130</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Jan 2007 14:01:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.evolvemiami.org/transitmiami/2007/01/24/when-nimbys-plan-we-all-lose/#comment-4130</guid>
		<description>The county has mandated that more parking should be put in, not the community.  The fact is this project was being rammed through without any input from the people who would be most affected.  This is not a true TOD.  If it was it would be more oriented to getting people out of there cars not bringing more cars into the area.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Also, scale is a major part of urban planning.  And the project was so out of scale that of course it caused a backlash. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The station will be developed, but it should be done with thought and good planning.  Dadeland South is a good example of density gone awry.  It is not pedestrian friendly and traffic in and around the station is a nightmare. Just try to walk to the station from any of the new condos, it is a scary situation.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Lets not make the same mistake in the Grove.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The county has mandated that more parking should be put in, not the community.  The fact is this project was being rammed through without any input from the people who would be most affected.  This is not a true TOD.  If it was it would be more oriented to getting people out of there cars not bringing more cars into the area.</p>
<p>Also, scale is a major part of urban planning.  And the project was so out of scale that of course it caused a backlash. </p>
<p>The station will be developed, but it should be done with thought and good planning.  Dadeland South is a good example of density gone awry.  It is not pedestrian friendly and traffic in and around the station is a nightmare. Just try to walk to the station from any of the new condos, it is a scary situation.</p>
<p>Lets not make the same mistake in the Grove.</p>
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		<title>By: Gabriel J. Lopez-Bernal</title>
		<link>http://www.transitmiami.com/2007/01/24/when-nimbys-plan-we-all-lose/#comment-4129</link>
		<dc:creator>Gabriel J. Lopez-Bernal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Jan 2007 16:27:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.evolvemiami.org/transitmiami/2007/01/24/when-nimbys-plan-we-all-lose/#comment-4129</guid>
		<description>I disagree.  The project was proposed over 15 years ago...exactly, the market has changed, the area is ripe for greater growth, taller buildings, and a better development than 2 midrises and a grocery store.  It may abut a residential area, but the whole area may be primed for some change to bring about some greater density to the area.  &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Did the TODs in DC have huge parking garages?&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;It isn't density for the sake of density, its density for the sake of creating the area that can be pedestrian friendly and can be integrated with public transportation easily...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I disagree.  The project was proposed over 15 years ago&#8230;exactly, the market has changed, the area is ripe for greater growth, taller buildings, and a better development than 2 midrises and a grocery store.  It may abut a residential area, but the whole area may be primed for some change to bring about some greater density to the area.  </p>
<p>Did the TODs in DC have huge parking garages?</p>
<p>It isn&#8217;t density for the sake of density, its density for the sake of creating the area that can be pedestrian friendly and can be integrated with public transportation easily&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.transitmiami.com/2007/01/24/when-nimbys-plan-we-all-lose/#comment-4128</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Jan 2007 15:50:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.evolvemiami.org/transitmiami/2007/01/24/when-nimbys-plan-we-all-lose/#comment-4128</guid>
		<description>Coconut Grove "nimbys" are not the problem here.  This project was originally proposed over 15 years ago as 2 midrise bldgs, and a grocery store and then morphed into a project containing 2 million sq. ft., without any input form the community. It was not one towere but three 35 story towers. This station does not exist in a vacuum.  It abuts a residential area and one of the most congested intersections on US1.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The developer tried to make an end run around the community and got caught.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I lived in D.C. and saw how well t.o.d. works, but not every develpoment was huge.  The "U" st. corridor benefitted from a new metro line, but  bldgs. there are no taller than 7 stories, and the neighborhood bustles with all sorts of new retail and housing.  Density for denity's sake is not the answer.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The Coconut Grove station area as a whole should be reviewed, and be provided with a master plan perhaps.  The station should be reoriented to make it more pedestrian friendly, and the community on booth sides of US 1 should be asked to participate in the process.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Coconut Grove &#8220;nimbys&#8221; are not the problem here.  This project was originally proposed over 15 years ago as 2 midrise bldgs, and a grocery store and then morphed into a project containing 2 million sq. ft., without any input form the community. It was not one towere but three 35 story towers. This station does not exist in a vacuum.  It abuts a residential area and one of the most congested intersections on US1.</p>
<p>The developer tried to make an end run around the community and got caught.</p>
<p>I lived in D.C. and saw how well t.o.d. works, but not every develpoment was huge.  The &#8220;U&#8221; st. corridor benefitted from a new metro line, but  bldgs. there are no taller than 7 stories, and the neighborhood bustles with all sorts of new retail and housing.  Density for denity&#8217;s sake is not the answer.</p>
<p>The Coconut Grove station area as a whole should be reviewed, and be provided with a master plan perhaps.  The station should be reoriented to make it more pedestrian friendly, and the community on booth sides of US 1 should be asked to participate in the process.</p>
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		<title>By: Ryan</title>
		<link>http://www.transitmiami.com/2007/01/24/when-nimbys-plan-we-all-lose/#comment-4127</link>
		<dc:creator>Ryan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Jan 2007 04:35:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.evolvemiami.org/transitmiami/2007/01/24/when-nimbys-plan-we-all-lose/#comment-4127</guid>
		<description>Well said Gabe. I would love to preach on myself, but I would just be repeating the comments I made in this post's hyperlinks. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;If you want to understand the Grove NIMBY mentality, just read the comments from the  hyperlinks. Nothing is based on science or facts, just a cocktail of emotion, ignorance, and xenophobia. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;It's really sad, though, because this mentality is so damaging to the Grove as well as the city and county.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well said Gabe. I would love to preach on myself, but I would just be repeating the comments I made in this post&#8217;s hyperlinks. </p>
<p>If you want to understand the Grove NIMBY mentality, just read the comments from the  hyperlinks. Nothing is based on science or facts, just a cocktail of emotion, ignorance, and xenophobia. </p>
<p>It&#8217;s really sad, though, because this mentality is so damaging to the Grove as well as the city and county.</p>
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